It Really is Rocket Science (Part 1)

How high do you really have to fly to be considered an astronaut? As space tourism takes off, is it safe? We talk with a former NASA space shuttle engineer—Florida Institute of Technology President Dr. T. Dwayne McCay—about these topics and much more in this inaugural episode of Today in STEM. You can read more about Dr. McCay here.

Transcript

Dr. Wes Sumner: 0:01

Hello, and welcome to Today in STEM, as we discuss what's new in the realms of science, technology, engineering, and mathematics, as all combined to make your world a better place. I'm your host Wes Sumner. This new program gives you an inside look at all things STEM hearing from experts and relating their knowledge to our, our everyday lives. For our inaugural show. We're pleased to have as our guest, the president of the Florida Institute of Technology, Dr. T. Dwayne McCay. Welcome, sir. Good morning, Wesley. Dr. McCay has years of experience in space related enterprises as a researcher and engineer and an educator. He worked for NASA and was in charge of the space shuttle's main engine. So he knows a thing or two about rockets. And that's our topic today. Commercial space travel and space tourism. Dr. McCay, we hear about read about, see stories on an almost daily basis with the latest news from companies like SpaceX Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic. Space tourism seems to be taking off, but it's not as easy as it looks, it is rocket science, isn't it?

Dr. Dwayne McCay: 1:05

Well, there's quite a bit of rocket science involved. There's no doubt about that. It's, it's a complicated, uh, program that has to be put together or launch anything into space, especially when humans are involved. And so I think the space tourism idea, uh, is, uh, something that's gonna catch and, and get, uh, more and more attention and grow more and more so and so far. So good.

Dr. Wes Sumner: 1:27

With your extensive experience as a rocket scientist. If you will tell us a bit about the space-related projects of which you are proudest over the course of your career.

Dr. Dwayne McCay: 1:35

Oh, proudest. Well, I was always proud to get any of them completed, you know,<laugh> so, and most of them were fairly success, you know, I, I, you know, thinking back, um, about it, my, my first real experience when I, I sort of got the nickname rocket man, when I worked for Arnold ed Arnold Air Force Station was, uh, we had, uh, a set of satellites that were, uh, supposed to last about eight years and they were, uh, capable of, of functioning pro for only about two. And so people were trying to understand what was going wrong. So, uh, a design helped design and build a, a, uh, small, uh, uh, rocket propulsion system and, uh, for a, a very large, uh, vacuum chamber that allowed us to see whether or not it was the exhaust of the, uh, of the rocket itself and where they were located on the satellite that was actually contaminating the surfaces and therefore leading to degradation of optics and, and downstream, it, it, it caused failure, the ability to use the satellite and, uh, you know, so that program was great fun. We had to put together, uh, uh, an entire propellant system. We had to put together a, a feed system. We had to, uh, uh, have a small, uh, rocket system, uh, that, that had to be designed and built for both using both Mona propels and, and by propelling. And, um, uh, it was a huge success. So, uh, we determined not only that, what the problem was, but a solution to it. And so, uh, those, uh, they have other satellites, uh, very similar that fly today and they use that, that technology. So anytime you have a pro em, that you solve, uh, you feel good about it. Uh, you know, I got involved in, in big engines because we had meltdowns due to, uh, uh, a, uh, design flaw in the space shuttle, main engine, large nozzle, which consisted of 10, 1080 tubes welded together. And, and, and, uh, when that nozzle went through its startup process, some of them were breaking. And when you break hydrogen and oxygen in the same environment, we all remember what happened when Challenger flew. So, uh, we had to redesign that nozzle, and I knew nothing about big engines. Uh, you know, my expertise was, is in, uh, in, in, in small guys, one pounders and less, and one pound thrust and less rather than, than the, the giant space shuttle main engine. So it was a learning process. It was a lot of fun. Um, but I, I think of all the things that I ever got involved in was, uh, designing and building the first, uh, uh, actual laser propel rocket and did that at Marshall Space Flight Center. And I was excited. I didn't get to finish the project because we had a problem on the shuttle with the shuttle engines. And, um, I got redirect. That's what I found out about, even though I was a scientist and did pretty well. What I pleased at work, as long as I got my projects done, I found out what it was like to have a boss.<laugh> where I, I told my boss, uh, Mr. Lombardo, uh, thank you, sir, for the offer, but I have no interest in working on shuttle engines. And he said, oh, you don't seem to understand how this works. Uhoh and I go, well, sir, I'm really happy, uh, doing my, my, my laser rocket work. And he goes, and this is not about your happiness. This is about solving a problem. And, uh, he said, you're now the new, uh, DVS on this, on the, on the main nozzle on the, on the large nozzle, I said would certain, he says our discussion's over somebody down the hallway to, and, uh, stopped in one of the offices, uh, in the combustion group. And I said, Hey guys, what? What's a, what's a DVS. And they said, you don't know what that is. I said, no. I said, what's a design verification, specification engineer. Why'd you ask us? I goes, cause I am one<laugh>. So that was how I got into big, big engines. Oh,

Dr. Wes Sumner: 5:41

Science and action engine in action. Right? Well, there's this big push into commercial space. As we talked about at the top of the show and space tourism is taking off, please help us understand where does space really begin and end. And, and what does that mean to make an astronaut?

Dr. Dwayne McCay: 5:57

Well, there it's, it's been an ongoing argument or originally got, uh, settled on by, uh, uh, one of the committees that, uh, you know, would be defined as the VA Carmen line. Um, and basically it's about 75 miles into space. So, uh, you know, the very first launch that we had with shepherd, uh, he crossed that line significantly. And, uh, uh, you know, and so astronaut wings were being awarded to anyone that got above, cuz you can fly some, uh, you know, you can fly to two pretty high, you can fly the Sr 71, pretty high. You can, you can, there are things that can get up there, uh, other than rock and propel vehicles. And so where you gonna draw the line, who's an AAU and who's an astronaut. And so, so they say, okay, if you've been above Theon Carmen line and up until a commercial space, we'd pretty well thought that was the case. Whether they called you an astronaut or a take no, or a Cosman O they, they all considered that same. And, um, and with some of the commercial ventures that weren't going quite that high, uh, the purist was a, Hey, you know, you didn't make it. And, uh, I think, uh, Mr. Bezos was criticized for that. I do notice in the, in the, the latest, uh, launch, uh, uh, where, uh, uh, uh, captain H and the others flew that they did make it above that line. And so, uh, they could legitimately earn, uh, uh, astronaut wings if there are such a thing. And, uh, so it, it was, uh, you know, Kevin Kirk, uh, being an old star Trek lover, and most of us that ever saw it really were, uh, he and Spock the others. Um, uh, I'm glad that Shatner's wings have a little more validity to them than, than so that people won't criticize that.

Dr. Wes Sumner: 7:47

Not at all honorary,

Dr. Dwayne McCay: 7:48

He made the line, he made the, he made the line, I think. Yes,

Dr. Wes Sumner: 7:50

Very good. And, and with, as you say, captain Kirk, uh, William, Shatner going into space not so long ago as a space tourist, how safe is, is it really?

Dr. Dwayne McCay: 8:00

Well? You know, I, I did some of the original safety analysis on the shuttle and, and we were pretty close to accurate with regard to how safe it was. And, uh, you know, you do probabilities and, and so, you know, the, the odds were about at that time seemed to be about one in 25 that would get it, have a significant, um, uh, malfunction, not the major malfunction we had, but, but at least one that would, could drink the vehicle and perhaps even lose a crew, et cetera. And, and I would guess I have not had I not been privy to the information that the commercial companies are using or the data they're going on, but, and, and of course, SpaceX lost some vehicles early, uh, unmanned of course. So I would be surprised since many of the technologies are the same. Uh, the computer technologies are much better, no doubt about that. Uh, but, uh, I'd be surprised that they're much safer than they were then. Um, uh, I wouldn't say they're not as safe. Uh, NASA might say that. I don't know, but, uh, uh, I would be, uh, surprised that that one in 25, isn't a number for them and we haven't had that many yet. So we'll see. So we'll see. And probabilities are the, you know, people don't understand prob every time you launch is still one in 25, doesn't mean 25 launches later, something's gonna happen. It just means each time you step in the vehicle, there's a one in 25 chance. If that is an accurate number, that you will have a major problem.

Dr. Wes Sumner: 9:36

Well, Dr. McCay, unfortunately, we're out of time for this episode, please stick around though, and we'll bring you back for part two. Thank you. That's all for this edition of Today in STEM I'm Wes Sumner.

Speaker 3: 9:47

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